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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #61  
Old 2012-11-11, 10:45am
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Thanks mi^2,
but I already bought 30 glaskolbens of 90coe and I can't let them go to waste...

I've been working on 104 and 102 which has been fine so far but I wanted to try something new.
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  #62  
Old 2012-11-11, 3:46pm
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Oh, that's too bad! I can understand wanting to use what you have-- and perhaps you can't even get the tubing in 104 anyway.
Have you tried it without frit (or just a very small amount of frit) to see if you're able to heat it better? Or maybe smashing the frit closer to powder so it won't act as a heat sink?

Mimi
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  #63  
Old 2012-11-11, 3:57pm
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I haven't even used frit at all yet because I had to order 90coe frit and it hasn't arrived yet ... But the problem is supposed to be that I'm using propane on a hot head, which isn't hot enough. I'm going to try to switch to propylene tomorrow, hopefully that'll get me going.
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  #64  
Old 2012-11-11, 4:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnulaGlass View Post
Here's an idea from a furnace worker- don't bother with caps, just punty up or use some hot fingers and make a loop at the top! In the hot shop we crack our ornaments off into some fiber frax and bring a fresh gather over to stick on, pull up and twist into a loop.

I'm not sure how well it'll work with soft glass, I usually end up with puddles if I try to melt that sloppy stuff, but i saw something similar done with boro recently and will be trying it tomorrow.
lololol this is a great thread and very informative,,i am going to try some of the techniques today,,but i love the reference to 104 as 'that sloppy stuff' i have a visual of trying to make beads with custard
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  #65  
Old 2012-11-11, 5:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPierce View Post


Here are the pics!
Brett are these coe 104?
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  #66  
Old 2012-11-11, 5:29pm
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Hey Gabi, yes they are 104 coe. I was doing a little research on the different temps of gases today and found that propylene is only about 50 degrees hotter that propane. I was worried that you would spend the money for it and be disappointed. I was also thinking of a way to possibly use a national tip that uses gas/air mix so it would be possible to get a hotter fire with the HH. I'll think about it some more tomorrow at Kodak and see what I can come up with. Hopefully I will be doing some video's of the christmas balls this week and have them up here. I was thinking you could add the frit through the blow pipe and get similar results as with the 90 coe tubes. Brett
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  #67  
Old 2012-11-11, 6:24pm
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Most hardware stores like Ace or Lowes will carry Mapp gas in small canisters.
I dont know if you have these kinds of stores where you are, but if you do - try looking there.
Thats what I run with my Hot Head. I hope that helps you.
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  #68  
Old 2012-11-11, 10:04pm
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Thanks guys. Yeah, as far as I know we only have propane and butane here. That's what they sell at these "Lowes" type places and these are used for BBQ's... I know the plumbers and electricians use TINY little gas canisters as well but I'm pretty sure it's going to be propane as well... Tomorrow morning I'm going to call the natural gas companies to see what I can find out about other options... pretty sure mapp isn't available here as nobody I've asked knows it.
What I'm thinking though is that if propylene only burns 50 degrees hotter than propane then maybe my problem is the actual torch? Like could it be leaking or something? Would that cause such a problem? I can't believe that other people are making these on hot heads in 5 minutes and I can't do it at all. Brett, did you find out the temp difference between propane/propylene and mapp and chemtane? ::googles as well::

Sorry to be steering the conversation away from christmas balls and towards a more technical concern... As far as I know there is no other lampworker in this country. (there is, however a very small fused glass community) So I don't have anyone here to ask about torch and gas issues. I'm a pioneer of sorts. I've learned almost everything I know from YouTube, and Lampwork etc. I have a friend who makes handmade porcelain veneers (for teeth), who knows about stuff like this... I'll try to get more information from him tomorrow as well...
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  #69  
Old 2012-11-11, 10:27pm
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check out what I found... http://www.finehomebuilding.com/tool...ylene-gas.aspx

according to this the difference is 150degrees ...would that make a difference?
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  #70  
Old 2012-11-11, 10:37pm
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Unhappy flame temperatures

OK so I found out the flame temperatures are:

propane 3450F
butane 3591F
propylene 3600F
mapp 5300F
chemtane 6000F

So... I definitely need mapp!!!!!!! Which I already knew. More research tomorrow. I can't believe this crap.
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  #71  
Old 2012-11-12, 6:43am
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Super screwed. The only other welding gas they sell here is acetylene... and it costs $223.83 for a tank. I'm going to have to upgrade my torch instead...

I'm not going to give up yet, I'll keep calling other places but it sounds like this is it. Frustration doesn't even begin to describe it.
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  #72  
Old 2012-11-12, 11:59am
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Look at this guy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEKM-rskCRQ
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  #73  
Old 2012-11-12, 12:03pm
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Here's a thought... If I made these with the hollow mandrels... Could I make them clear, and then drop in some murrini/millefiori or frit through the hole, or is it done once you blow it?
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  #74  
Old 2012-11-12, 12:25pm
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After reading this thread, I'm really interested in trying to make an ornament in soft glass. I've made a few boro ones with pulled points, plain clear being easiest, but I tried color and had mixed results. I think soft glass would be fun, I love the flow of the glass compared to boro.
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  #75  
Old 2012-11-12, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allegrafuct View Post
Very similar to how I do it! And with 104 and on a Hot Head too!

A few suggestions...I saw him press the gather down on a marver after he made the first few winds atop the footprint; be careful with this, as you don't want to end up pushing any of the gather glass up into the hollow of the mandrel.

Also, as I think I mentioned, I've found that holding the mandrel and gather upward (like a raised trumpet) when blowing gives it a more round finish; holding it downward often results in a egg or oval shaped ornament. This can be a good thing though if you're going for a teardrop or puffed icicle type of shape...

And I see he used what I THINK is Ivory for the footprint (the first wind that creates the "neck"). I've found that if you're using "caps" over the neck area on the finished piece, maybe doing the neck in clear isn't a bad idea instead. Some colors are very soft and can be persnikety, wanting to elongate or ball up when you're heating the remainder of the gather! Clear is often stiffer than many of the light colored 104 glasses, and can help to hold the neck shape better.

Now on the subject of using light colors, I must warn you - using WHITE (104) for your ornament can be a real challenge! (At least for me!) I decided I wanted to make a hollow vessel/ornament type snowman yesterday - gul! Talk about soft! That effetre white took on a life of it's own and wanted to drip all over the place! It also wanted to colapse easily, so just giving you a head's up! I will say that I was DETERMINED to conquer it though...my resulting "vessel" will be in tonight's Gallery! Not perfect, but after all we went through together, I think I him!

Keep us posted on your progress, ok?

De
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  #76  
Old 2012-11-12, 1:58pm
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You don't want acetylene, it's not clean enough for glass work and it really needs oxy to get it to burn properly. I do have an acetylene air torch for plumbing but it is a special torch. Plus as you have found out it's not cheap. I'd be willing to bet that the $200+ price tag includes the purchase of the tank. THe last time I got a 60 cuft tank swapped I think it was around $25 US.
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  #77  
Old 2012-11-12, 2:16pm
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You don't want acetylene, it's not clean enough for glass work and it really needs oxy to get it to burn properly. I do have an acetylene air torch for plumbing but it is a special torch. Plus as you have found out it's not cheap. I'd be willing to bet that the $200+ price tag includes the purchase of the tank. THe last time I got a 60 cuft tank swapped I think it was around $25 US.
Right. That includes the tank for $150 and the refil is $73.83. I don't think it's worth the trouble. I'm going to have to upgrade my torch.
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  #78  
Old 2012-11-15, 8:38am
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I got to try blowing ornaments from the Glaskolben last night. The BE frit I have is too coarse, but I put some in the first one, anyway. The whole thing was just plain baaaaad. I'll keep it for a good laugh.

The second one I did turned out well, except I burnt the snot out of the red BE stringer I put on it. I'll attach that pic. I'm happy with the shape, though, for a second try. I didn't expect a good ball to come out of it so I laid random stringer all over it.

For the third one, I laid some blue on it and the color came out well, but the ball wasn't as spherical as I wanted. I need to find the perfect heat amount where the glass is ready to be blown but the color isn't melted if I'm going to decorate the outside.

I was going to make some snowmen, then realized I was out of white and only had 1 black stringer left. So, I made a quick Zombie Snowman.

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  #79  
Old 2012-11-15, 9:25am
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Looks good Brian! Zombie snowmen...yeeees!
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  #80  
Old 2012-11-15, 9:34am
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Whatever kind of color you put on or inside you must make sure it is even or it won't blow out even. Even heat and even thickness will result in a nice round shape.

I have made them on a torch with softglass tube and coilpotting on a small tube but,

These are from last week that I made from my furnace:









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  #81  
Old 2012-11-15, 9:57am
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Looks good Brian! Zombie snowmen...yeeees!
Thanks, Brett. I screwed the Snowman up - I made his head and body too far apart so tried to put another donut between and that was horrible. I almost dunked him to hear that satisfying sizzle, then decided to see if I could marver him back into a snowman. It worked OK! It's not a great marver job, but I knew the scarf would cover it. Most importantly, he's the first one I made that I didn't crack because I remembered to keep him heated.

Mike - I don't even have a good word to describe those furnace blow balls. I'll go with Freakin' Gorgeous for now. Thanks for the tip on the even color. On that first one you displayed, are the clear spots from clear frit? It looks like it.

-BEP
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  #82  
Old 2012-11-15, 10:35am
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Mike! Those are AMAZING!!!
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  #83  
Old 2012-11-15, 11:23am
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you can use the 96 frits like for furnace work with 90 coe with NO problem, been doing it for over 30 years. the 90 coe frit from bullseye is much stiffer and it tends to scorch in an oxy flame, I abandoned that idea, but the 90 coe thompson enamels work great too
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  #84  
Old 2012-11-15, 11:35am
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Originally Posted by BPierce View Post
Hey Gabi, yes they are 104 coe. I was doing a little research on the different temps of gases today and found that propylene is only about 50 degrees hotter that propane. I was worried that you would spend the money for it and be disappointed. I was also thinking of a way to possibly use a national tip that uses gas/air mix so it would be possible to get a hotter fire with the HH. I'll think about it some more tomorrow at Kodak and see what I can come up with. Hopefully I will be doing some video's of the christmas balls this week and have them up here. I was thinking you could add the frit through the blow pipe and get similar results as with the 90 coe tubes. Brett
I think most gas air tips would not give a broad enough flame. I learned all my blown work with 90 coe glass and a cross fire using propane and forced air. you need at LEAST a 5 point crossfire( like used in neon shops) to make ornaments. this was my bread an butter for many many years. Problem is, with that type of set up the stems for the glasskolbens are WAY too short. your fingers would fry. I know this from experience.
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  #85  
Old 2012-11-15, 12:40pm
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i think most gas air tips would not give a broad enough flame. I learned all my blown work with 90 coe glass and a cross fire using propane and forced air. You need at least a 5 point crossfire( like used in neon shops) to make ornaments. This was my bread an butter for many many years. Problem is, with that type of set up the stems for the glasskolbens are way too short. Your fingers would fry. I know this from experience.
what a bad experience!
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  #86  
Old 2012-11-15, 3:02pm
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Problem is, with that type of set up the stems for the glasskolbens are WAY too short. your fingers would fry. I know this from experience.
My hands were getting warm last night, for sure.

-BEP
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  #87  
Old 2012-11-15, 6:08pm
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Originally Posted by bepnewt View Post

Mike - I don't even have a good word to describe those furnace blow balls. I'll go with Freakin' Gorgeous for now. Thanks for the tip on the even color. On that first one you displayed, are the clear spots from clear frit? It looks like it.

-BEP
Thanks! The clear looking spots are light blue #3 sized frit
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  #88  
Old 2012-11-15, 8:00pm
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..that newbie moment when you realize frit comes in different sizes, and these sizes are numbered....
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  #89  
Old 2012-11-15, 9:57pm
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^and that not every company uses the same size/numbers! One company's #2 could be another's #3 lol

I always go to http://www.thatfritgirl.com/ because she lists the sizes for each.

So Gabi, in the meantime why not make them on a stainless blowpipe? I did a lot on a HH with just propane. I've dropped some frit down with mixed results, issues could be me. I usually roll the gather into frit/s then melt them in.
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  #90  
Old 2012-11-16, 6:51am
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Yep!!! That's what I'm going to do! My hollow mandrels will be here in 10 days..
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