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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2015-03-04, 9:45am
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carolinesbeads carolinesbeads is offline
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Default Tips for a soft glass girl crossing over to the dark side

Any fun tips for someone crossing over to boro? I work mostly in 104 but I am wanting to make some e cig tips and soft glass breaks to easily

Thanks Caroline
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  #2  
Old 2015-03-04, 2:25pm
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When you think it's hot enough, heat it more! Especially clear
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Old 2015-03-04, 5:01pm
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You will want to look hard at your oxygen source.

I don't do boro so I don't know but I get the impression boro likes heat and heat likes oxygen in quantity.

My soft glass setup is supposed to be able to handle boro but I know I would have to bring three of my 5lpm oxycons inline to pull it off.
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  #4  
Old 2015-03-04, 6:12pm
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Boro eats up oxy like i can eat candy! lol
Oh and keep all your glass well separated and labeled. If you grind your junk/crack off jar into frit, then make sure you use different crack off jars for each COE. one speck of boro in your 104 or 104 in your boro will be almost garuenteed to destroy any project no matter how much time you spent on it lol
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Old 2015-03-05, 7:38am
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You might want to check out http://www.talkglass.com/forum/forum...etting-up-Shop
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  #6  
Old 2015-03-05, 9:18am
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You will need to login or register to view that link in TalkGlass.
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  #7  
Old 2015-03-05, 10:20am
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AmorphousDesigns AmorphousDesigns is offline
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Caroline, boro is much stiffer and needs lots more heat (thus more oxygen and fuel).

For example, when I make stringer from soft glass I can heat up a "tablespoon" of molten glass, take it out of the flame, wait a second to form a "skin", then pull, pull, pull.

For boro stringers, I basically just heat an inch or so of rod to molten, pull, then reheat, pull, reheat, repeat until stringer of decent length is achieved. Perhaps there is an easier way, but the relevant point is that boro takes A LOT MORE HEAT and I have to move much quicker to work the glass as it stiffens up faster than soft.

Also, you may want to evaluate your safety eyewear. Boro, especially color, requires much darker shades than soft glass. I chose a #3 shade as a middling compromise between soft requirements (purple didy's) and super dark welding shades (#5).

Label your rods!! Especially color, it can be well neigh impossible to tell the difference between some of the colors that are dark. Much harder to tell the difference between colored rods than 104. Also, boro clear looks just like 104 clear.

A couple of the boro color companies sell sample packs, I'm pretty sure I got packs from Glass Alchemy as well as TAG. The sample packs came with a flyer/booklet with recommendations on the best way to work each color, super helpful. The boro color companies usually have very good info on their website as well.

Jenny from TAG is awesome!! She will answer questions quickly, professionally and is a joy to work with, I highly recommend you try some TAG.

Boro frit is your friend, it's a relatively inexpensive way to get some color in your piece.

Most boro color can be thinned down by mixing with clear for very good results. John Lindquist is a fantastic glass worker who has graciously published his color mixing results in one of the glass magazines (the name escapes me at the moment) and recently on Facebook.

The Melting Pot forum (http://www.talkglass.com/forum/activity.php) is a great forum to learn more about boro. Granted there is a pretty high testosterone level there (with the attendant, virtual "dick shaking" and trash talk) and lots of pipe makers, but the skill level of many of the people is crazy good and questions posted there will usually net some great advice. Just be careful to use the search engine first and post pictures of your attempts when asking technique questions, that seems to be the best way to interact on that forum.
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  #8  
Old 2015-03-05, 2:42pm
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Northstar also has suggestions on how to use their glass. Check their website.

Boro colors are costly per pound but will go a long way as a lot of clear is used.

Simax is a good clear to use and fumes well with both gold and silver. Using 3 mm clear rod is great for encasing beads and laying down a first layer on a mandrel.

For pendants and marbles consider 9 and 12 mm clear.

Overall purchase more clear than colored. Clear is much less costly and comes in 1500 mm lengths. Check if D&L Glass out of Denver still caries Simex.
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  #9  
Old 2015-03-05, 3:35pm
nevadaglass nevadaglass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhamilton117 View Post
Boro eats up oxy like i can eat candy! lol
Oh and keep all your glass well separated and labeled. If you grind your junk/crack off jar into frit, then make sure you use different crack off jars for each COE. one speck of boro in your 104 or 104 in your boro will be almost garuenteed to destroy any project no matter how much time you spent on it lol
Too funny ( well ok not so funny when it happens) and too true! - Couple years ago when I too decided to go to the dark side, I make this great flower - anneal it and when I pull it out of kiln it crumbles right in my hand - turns out I mixed a 104 rod in with a boro ( I thought they were both boro so I mixed them together to get a cool color) - the two play well in the flame together until they actually start to cool LOL

Remember the scene from one of the Underworld movies where sunlight cooks them and they are still intact but burnt and then you touch them and they blow away into the wind? that's like what Boro and 104 do when mixed hahaha

Last edited by nevadaglass; 2015-03-05 at 3:39pm.
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  #10  
Old 2015-03-06, 3:31pm
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I use 1 5 oxygen concentrator and propane to run my carlisle mini and it works great

also over at Trev's Glass we sell Northstar shorts for $18 a pound.. Makes the glass reasonable
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  #11  
Old 2015-03-07, 4:25am
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Amorphous Designs covered a lot of great information. I would stress the need to label your rods. There are several colors that look very similar if not exact, especially wearing shade threes. Pulling a rod of turquesa instead of cobalt can be a terrible thing since turquesa strikes and cobalt doesn't.

This goes for all COEs but do not be afraid to experiment. If a color does one thing when it strikes in a hot, oxy rich flame, don't be afraid to see what it does if you reduce it a little, or a lot. Add dots of clear over striking colors, dots of clear over areas you reduced. You will be amazed.

If you can, learn some of the chemestry of the colors you use.... what makes color "A" strike blue or green or purple? Learn some of this and you can better learn what to expect, how to achieve it and how to alter it better. This is also good knowledge for mixing colors. Some will give you a specific outcome and some will totally surprise you.

LAYER!! Layer striking colors over other striking colors. Layer striking colors over white, over black, over cobalt, over green transparent. Layer striking colors over sparkle colors layered over white, black etc. Try layered combinations encased and unencased. Again try dots of clear over your layered colors.

Let striking colors stay in your kiln over several cycles. I have learned a lot about striking colors with this procedure.

The best advice I can give is experiment, play learn and have fun! Good luck and glad you joined the dark side!

Otter

Last edited by Otter's Flame; 2015-06-19 at 3:56am.
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  #12  
Old 2015-03-10, 8:34am
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istandalone24/7 istandalone24/7 is offline
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if you're a beader....get the Foster Fire smooth and tuff...that's the best bead release for boro i've found.
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  #13  
Old 2015-04-06, 11:29am
LewisW LewisW is offline
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The one thing that no one has mentioned is flame chemistry based on sections of the flame. For soft glass we are taught to work kind of in the tail end or back of the flame. Because fuel there is burned off totally and the soft does not react to unburned propane and bleed out due to the reduction.
Boro loves to be worked RIGHT AT THE CANDLE TIPS. An oxy con will be of little help, unless you are working with six MM or less in size. You will pretty much need or want tanked oxy. At least give it a try with one tank. You will never know what boro will do for you until you have worked it PROPERLY.
For small sculptural you will realize that you can do a lot of "keeping hot" by rotating in the back fire while melting a new gather at the candles.
If you need a visual, please check out Lewiscwison on YouTube. I have dozens of videos working boro. You will see where to work.
Lewis
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  #14  
Old 2015-04-06, 11:48am
snoopdog6502 snoopdog6502 is offline
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I work boro, gtt cheetah, 8lpm 15 psi oxycon. I can make 1.5 inch marbles and work 32mm+ tube no trouble.

I have never worked much soft glass but when I did it exploded and shot hot shards at me and I never tried to fool with it again. Get that stuff out of my shop, LOL.
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  #15  
Old 2015-06-16, 9:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisW View Post
The one thing that no one has mentioned is flame chemistry based on sections of the flame. For soft glass we are taught to work kind of in the tail end or back of the flame. Because fuel there is burned off totally and the soft does not react to unburned propane and bleed out due to the reduction.
Boro loves to be worked RIGHT AT THE CANDLE TIPS. An oxy con will be of little help, unless you are working with six MM or less in size. You will pretty much need or want tanked oxy. At least give it a try with one tank. You will never know what boro will do for you until you have worked it PROPERLY.
For small sculptural you will realize that you can do a lot of "keeping hot" by rotating in the back fire while melting a new gather at the candles.
If you need a visual, please check out Lewiscwison on YouTube. I have dozens of videos working boro. You will see where to work.
Lewis
Why would you work right at the candle tips? The fuel is not fully combusted at this point, so it's kind of a waste. Also you run the risk of getting glass on the torch face. It's also super reducing at this point, so any striking colors aren't going to look as vibrant here. 3" from the torch face is the hottest point, I do most of my work here. But obviously if I want a cooler or more oxidized flame I'll move further out.

Honestly soft glass and boro are not all that different. THe colors are different for sure, and boro moves a lot slower and doesn't shock as much.
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  #16  
Old 2015-06-16, 12:19pm
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Haha!!! Just found this thread. So much conflicting and misleading info. Must be at LE
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  #17  
Old 2015-06-19, 3:54am
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Hey LarryC, instead of criticizing how about enlightening. Unless of course that is your forte. I just find it funny you would take the time to reply in the thread and not add anything productive. I've not known you to be that way before.

Otter
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  #18  
Old 2015-06-19, 11:31am
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Honestly I find it frustrating to read posts here. Too many folks posting on subjects where they admit they have no knowledge at all. Lately I feel like anything I post will just muddy the waters even more. Sad really.
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  #19  
Old 2015-06-19, 10:33pm
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I RARELY post here or read threads. I only check the boro room every so often but if and when I can help, I try.

Otter
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  #20  
Old 2015-06-20, 7:15am
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No matter how bad it gets here, it will have a way to go to be as bad as Facebook's Glassblower Tips and Tricks. I don't understand the motivation to ridicule people like they do there.
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  #21  
Old 2015-06-20, 10:40am
LewisW LewisW is offline
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This is a reply to Capsalty who said "Why would you work right at the candle tips? The fuel is not fully combusted at this point, so it's kind of a waste. Also you run the risk of getting glass on the torch face. It's also super reducing at this point, so any striking colors aren't going to look as vibrant here. 3" from the torch face is the hottest point, I do most of my work here. But obviously if I want a cooler or more oxidized flame I'll move further out.

Honestly soft glass and boro are not all that different. THe colors are different for sure, and boro moves a lot slower and doesn't shock as much. "
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Soft glass and boro ARE totally different. They react to heat in different ways. Boro will let heat soak in and accept that as just heat and then it will allow the glass to just melt. Soft glass, because of its lower melting point, will heat and expand quickly, thus making it explode in the same flame that boro will jut heat up with. You need to be more subtle with soft glass and you can be brutle with boro.
You work at the candle tips with boro because that is where there is more concentrated heat, as in higher temp. This was shown to me by scientists from OSHA at the Corning gathering in the late 1990s. They were there taking measurements about flame chemistryand off gassing with fuming silver and gold. Also, working at the tip of candles is where I have learned to find the heat after overking with boro.
Three inches from the flame is a vague statement. Different flames make for different heat ranges . The one constant is the FOCUSED candles. I believe what I have seen for many years, and also what I saw with very sophisticated instruments to measure temps within a flame. After a piece is made there is plenty of time to selectively work with reduction or oxidizing flames.
I have many videos on you tube under Lewiscwilson where you can see me working in the flame. Most are shot thru dydinium filters.
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  #22  
Old 2015-06-22, 5:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisW View Post
This is a reply to Capsalty who said "Why would you work right at the candle tips? The fuel is not fully combusted at this point, so it's kind of a waste. Also you run the risk of getting glass on the torch face. It's also super reducing at this point, so any striking colors aren't going to look as vibrant here. 3" from the torch face is the hottest point, I do most of my work here. But obviously if I want a cooler or more oxidized flame I'll move further out.

Honestly soft glass and boro are not all that different. THe colors are different for sure, and boro moves a lot slower and doesn't shock as much. "
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Soft glass and boro ARE totally different. They react to heat in different ways. Boro will let heat soak in and accept that as just heat and then it will allow the glass to just melt. Soft glass, because of its lower melting point, will heat and expand quickly, thus making it explode in the same flame that boro will jut heat up with. You need to be more subtle with soft glass and you can be brutle with boro.
You work at the candle tips with boro because that is where there is more concentrated heat, as in higher temp. This was shown to me by scientists from OSHA at the Corning gathering in the late 1990s. They were there taking measurements about flame chemistryand off gassing with fuming silver and gold. Also, working at the tip of candles is where I have learned to find the heat after overking with boro.
Three inches from the flame is a vague statement. Different flames make for different heat ranges . The one constant is the FOCUSED candles. I believe what I have seen for many years, and also what I saw with very sophisticated instruments to measure temps within a flame. After a piece is made there is plenty of time to selectively work with reduction or oxidizing flames.
I have many videos on you tube under Lewiscwilson where you can see me working in the flame. Most are shot thru dydinium filters.
Hmm, is this true for all torches? I've been working with a redmax and candle tips do not seem to be the hottest part, but I'll experiment some more.
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  #23  
Old 2015-06-22, 7:30am
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One huge variable is if you are working on a concentrator or generator. The oxy levels produced are way less that tank O2 or liquid from a dewar.
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  #24  
Old 2015-06-23, 3:47pm
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Quote:
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Hmm, is this true for all torches? I've been working with a redmax and candle tips do not seem to be the hottest part, but I'll experiment some more.
Like Lewis said, it depend on the type of flame too. I have a redmax, and with a fairly neutral flame I can see working a couple of inches from the face of the torch where if I add propane the glass will glow brighter. But if I have an oxidizing flame going, then yes, right in those candles is where I'm going to be able to boil my glass in a near instant.

Sometimes you can get more bang for your buck setting in and working with a good heatbase than you do simply raging the gasses.
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