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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2015-07-19, 9:51am
Deniska Deniska is offline
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Unhappy Devardi Metallic glass

I have some of the Devardi metallic glasses (golden coppery black, silver black and aurora borealis) I have never gotten the gold or silver to show..... the borealis one did produce some red, but none of the iridescent colors in their photos. They say it's for use with the Hothead (what I use)..... what am I doing wrong? I am a newbie to lampworking...... but I don't seem to have trouble getting other silver glasses to work, like those from Effetre. The Devardi glass does seem to react to colors like Ivory and Turquoise. I get a metallic ring around the Ivory and the Turquoise will get silver. I have watched their videos and read their helpful hints. I do what they say..... and I get black beads.... no pretty metallic at all. Any help would be awesome.
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  #2  
Old 2015-07-19, 4:17pm
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silver black aurora borealis silvery black golden coppery black
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  #3  
Old 2015-07-19, 4:22pm
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I hope you have the proper ventilation
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Old 2015-07-19, 4:55pm
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I work in an area that is more screens than walls...... being surrounded by air.... I hope that's enough ventilation
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Old 2015-07-19, 5:32pm
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surrounded by air doesn't count.
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Old 2015-07-19, 6:08pm
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For the divarti metallics try finishing closer to the torch.
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Old 2015-07-19, 6:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losthelm View Post
For the divarti metallics try finishing closer to the torch.
maybe that's my problem...... or maybe I'm working it too long / too short. I try to bop it in and out of the flame like shown in their videos, but I never seem to see a change in the glass.... just the other colors I put on it..... more practice needed I guess.
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Old 2015-07-19, 6:27pm
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Devardi actually has a tute on their sight for getting those colors to come up. The trick is basically to turn up the gas and work way down IN the flame, close to the torch head. It makes a terrible noise, but it works.
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  #9  
Old 2015-07-19, 6:29pm
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Originally Posted by yellowbird View Post
surrounded by air doesn't count.
I know..... at the moment I don't have the money to invest in proper ventilation. I do have fans that move the air around. I know this isn't enough but it's what I have to work with. If you know of an inexpensive way of ventilating I'd love to know.
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Old 2015-07-19, 6:34pm
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Originally Posted by Deniska View Post
I know..... at the moment I don't have the money to invest in proper ventilation. I do have fans that move the air around. I know this isn't enough but it's what I have to work with. If you know of an inexpensive way of ventilating I'd love to know.
A) you need a reducing flame to bring metals to the surface, so yeah, less blue, more orange in the flame. You'll have to find the sweet spot on that hothead.

B) (and more importantly) your health is not to be taken lightly. Even in a shed with the doors wide open and an attic fan in the wall, I wound up setting off the smoke alarm because there was such a massive imbalance in inflow/outflow. Some things you don't skimp on: ventilation and eye protection should be higher priorities ahead of the kiln and torch.

If you pass out while working, you run the risk of falling into the flame, burning down your house and surrounding structures, etc etc. So please don't be so flip on a safety issue.
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Old 2015-07-19, 6:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocake View Post
Devardi actually has a tute on their sight for getting those colors to come up. The trick is basically to turn up the gas and work way down IN the flame, close to the torch head. It makes a terrible noise, but it works.
How far down in the flame? Like near the torch itself? And is it possible I'm keeping it in the flame too long? I give it a quick twist in and out of the flame ( I know there is a more technical way to describe that). Judging by the reaction of ivory and turquoise I think I have the motion correct..... they get metallic. I started learning on my own a year and a half ago.... still lots to learn.
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Old 2015-07-19, 6:40pm
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Originally Posted by menty666 View Post
A) you need a reducing flame to bring metals to the surface, so yeah, less blue, more orange in the flame. You'll have to find the sweet spot on that hothead.

B) (and more importantly) your health is not to be taken lightly. Even in a shed with the doors wide open and an attic fan in the wall, I wound up setting off the smoke alarm because there was such a massive imbalance in inflow/outflow. Some things you don't skimp on: ventilation and eye protection should be higher priorities ahead of the kiln and torch.

If you pass out while working, you run the risk of falling into the flame, burning down your house and surrounding structures, etc etc. So please don't be so flip on a safety issue.
I didn't mean to be flip. And I do have the proper glasses. And I thank all of you for your very helpful advice. It is very much appreciated. I do try to be as safe as I can possibly be. Right down to always wearing shoes and making sure the clothing I have on is natural fiber and not man made. And I do know I need better ventilation but I just don't have the funds to do it. That is next on my to-do list. Is there something DIY that will do until I can afford something better?
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Old 2015-07-19, 7:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniska View Post
Is there something DIY that will do until I can afford something better?

In all honesty? I've given this same advice to others: Get a part time seasonal job just to set aside money for the better equipment. If it's not safe to work in your current set up you're better off spending the time elsewhere until you can make it safe.
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Old 2015-07-19, 7:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menty666 View Post
In all honesty? I've given this same advice to others: Get a part time seasonal job just to set aside money for the better equipment. If it's not safe to work in your current set up you're better off spending the time elsewhere until you can make it safe.
That's discouraging....... thanks for the advice though. It's appreciated. Being safe is definitely important.
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Old 2015-07-19, 7:39pm
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Ventilation is one of those things that you are going to have to study in detail to learn to do it right.

Once you know it well you can figure out how to make it work on the budget that you have available.

But you your self have to know the details.

The glass we work all work with has chemicals in it that give it the wonderful colors that so entrance us. But those chemicals can poison you and your family by turning into a gas when you melt the glass and then falling onto all of the surfaces in your house and no amount of cleaning will make them go away if you continue to melt glass.

Look up cadmium yellow or silicon for that matter. Copper is another basic component of a lot of greens and blues. The metals turn to a gas and boil off the glass when in the flame but that gas turns right back into particles in half a second and lands like a cloud of dust everywhere.

We do the ventilation thing so that the gases will exhaust outside and mix with the wind and fall on the soil and get washed into the dirt and returned to the planet in relatively small amounts in relation to the whole of outside.

The combustion of the propane alone makes gases that can make you and your family sick for a long time. A box fan from the department store just doesn't work. Take one out side and see how far you can see smoke move from it with a small wind blowing back at you.
You will be lucky if it is more than 3 feet. It just doesn't work.

I know we all want to melt glass but it just is not safe for the health of your family to do it inside unless you have already got the ventilation needed.

Set up a bench in the backyard. The person that taught me how to lampwork has been torching on her patio for 12 years and she makes hundreds of beads and sells them to 2 dozen bead shops all over the Minneapolis area.

There are dozens of pages of discussions about ventilation here in the safety threads and they are even laced with cross links to 5 or 6 other forums and the safety threads there.

Please.

You only have to learn it once and once you have a system set up for yourself you can forget most of the details because you got it right to start with.

It's a lot like driving a car.
You don't have to be an engineer to learn to drive but you do have to follow the rules of the road and you do have to not hurt yourself or your family doing it.

It really is that important.
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  #16  
Old 2015-07-19, 8:00pm
Deniska Deniska is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
Ventilation is one of those things that you are going to have to study in detail to learn to do it right.

Once you know it well you can figure out how to make it work on the budget that you have available.

But you your self have to know the details.

The glass we work all work with has chemicals in it that give it the wonderful colors that so entrance us. But those chemicals can poison you and your family by turning into a gas when you melt the glass and then falling onto all of the surfaces in your house and no amount of cleaning will make them go away if you continue to melt glass.

Look up cadmium yellow or silicon for that matter. Copper is another basic component of a lot of greens and blues. The metals turn to a gas and boil off the glass when in the flame but that gas turns right back into particles in half a second and lands like a cloud of dust everywhere.

We do the ventilation thing so that the gases will exhaust outside and mix with the wind and fall on the soil and get washed into the dirt and returned to the planet in relatively small amounts in relation to the whole of outside.

The combustion of the propane alone makes gases that can make you and your family sick for a long time. A box fan from the department store just doesn't work. Take one out side and see how far you can see smoke move from it with a small wind blowing back at you.
You will be lucky if it is more than 3 feet. It just doesn't work.

I know we all want to melt glass but it just is not safe for the health of your family to do it inside unless you have already got the ventilation needed.

Set up a bench in the backyard. The person that taught me how to lampwork has been torching on her patio for 12 years and she makes hundreds of beads and sells them to 2 dozen bead shops all over the Minneapolis area.

There are dozens of pages of discussions about ventilation here in the safety threads and they are even laced with cross links to 5 or 6 other forums and the safety threads there.

Please.

You only have to learn it once and once you have a system set up for yourself you can forget most of the details because you got it right to start with.

It's a lot like driving a car.
You don't have to be an engineer to learn to drive but you do have to follow the rules of the road and you do have to not hurt yourself or your family doing it.

It really is that important.
thank you.... very good information.... I will be spending much time trying to figure out how to make my space safer as quickly as I can. I guess I jumped in with both feet and didn't look where I was landing. Working outside is an option for me and I guess I can do that while I sort out my ventilation issue.
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  #17  
Old 2015-07-19, 8:11pm
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Since Tom and Phill addressed the ventilation issue so clearly, I'll just touch on the Devardi metallics. I also use a HH, and for me, the best way to get the shinies out of the DM is to cover most of the HH air holes (a really thick leather work glove is your friend here) and hold the bead in the bluest part of the flame for a couple of seconds - right near the mouth of the torch. I usually have to do it a few times to get the colors I want, but it works. When I get on my desktop I'll post a pic or 2 so you can see.

Alli
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Old 2015-07-19, 9:16pm
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Your ventilation can come together, and at a doable cost. Research, sketch, measure, haunt eBay, Craigslist, rebuilding centers, etc. Talk to people too. I think that it will come together rather quickly once you define your needs.
Lots of advice available online about different approaches for different space considerations.
Good-luck!
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Old 2015-07-19, 9:58pm
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I got a 3 foot by 10 sheet of ductwork metal for $18 from my local heating and air conditioning company but that was a good 8 years ago.

Also you can ask them if they have any blowers from replacing furnaces. They will just have to try to get as much as they can for them from the metal recyclers anyway.

I used the blower from my own old furnace when it died on me and they even pulled it out and gave me a diagram of how it was wired up.

You will be surprised at how inexpensively things can be done once you know exactly what you need to make it work for you.

I got my 3 foot by 6 foot vent hood and 12 feet of 10 inch duct work from Craigs List for free when someone was redoing their kitchen and I got all the slate from an old pool table for a fire proof torch bench also from Craigs List and also for free.

I think I spent real money on the lighting, some mounting chains and hooks and on a blast gate that I can close to keep the winter from coming back down my system.



Oh and some folks use aluminum foil on some of the air holes on their hot head to get it go into a very reducing flame to get the colors you are after.
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Old 2015-07-20, 2:30am
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if you don't have the funds for proper ventilation, then don't melt any more glass until you do.
no joke, this is not a game you are toying with the only set of lungs you'll ever get, short of a $800,000 transplant.
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Old 2015-07-20, 4:35am
Deniska Deniska is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
I got a 3 foot by 10 sheet of ductwork metal for $18 from my local heating and air conditioning company but that was a good 8 years ago.

Also you can ask them if they have any blowers from replacing furnaces. They will just have to try to get as much as they can for them from the metal recyclers anyway.

I used the blower from my own old furnace when it died on me and they even pulled it out and gave me a diagram of how it was wired up.

You will be surprised at how inexpensively things can be done once you know exactly what you need to make it work for you.

I got my 3 foot by 6 foot vent hood and 12 feet of 10 inch duct work from Craigs List for free when someone was redoing their kitchen and I got all the slate from an old pool table for a fire proof torch bench also from Craigs List and also for free.

I think I spent real money on the lighting, some mounting chains and hooks and on a blast gate that I can close to keep the winter from coming back down my system.



Oh and some folks use aluminum foil on some of the air holes on their hot head to get it go into a very reducing flame to get the colors you are after.
That actually sounds like I can get this done quicker than I thought. Thanks for all the tips. Especially the winter one. The snow does like to find it's way into the house in the winter.
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Old 2015-07-20, 5:56am
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The ReStore is your friend. You can pick up range hoods and ducting pretty cheaply there.
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Old 2015-07-20, 6:33am
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The ReStore is your friend. You can pick up range hoods and ducting pretty cheaply there.
That's where I was thinking of looking. There is one about an hour from where I live. That and the people down at the two hardware stores we have here in town are usually helpful with ideas on where to find stuff.
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Old 2015-07-20, 12:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allicat View Post
Since Tom and Phill addressed the ventilation issue so clearly, I'll just touch on the Devardi metallics. I also use a HH, and for me, the best way to get the shinies out of the DM is to cover most of the HH air holes (a really thick leather work glove is your friend here) and hold the bead in the bluest part of the flame for a couple of seconds - right near the mouth of the torch. I usually have to do it a few times to get the colors I want, but it works. When I get on my desktop I'll post a pic or 2 so you can see.

Alli
I'd love to see your beads..... =)
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Old 2015-07-21, 5:30pm
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Here ya go! Horrible pic, but the oil slick sheen comes thru clearly (it's Aurora Borealis):

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Old 2015-07-21, 5:37pm
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That's very pretty..... can't wait until I get my ventilation sorted out so I can play with my glass.... =)
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Old 2015-07-21, 6:01pm
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Here is a DIY ventilation system that is relatively simple. I use it myself, and know many others do as well. Should give you an idea of what to look for And good luck with the metallic!

http://www.andreaguarino.com/read-me/
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Old 2015-07-21, 6:40pm
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Originally Posted by theglasspilcrow View Post
Here is a DIY ventilation system that is relatively simple. I use it myself, and know many others do as well. Should give you an idea of what to look for And good luck with the metallic!

http://www.andreaguarino.com/read-me/
That is some good information..... thank you. Luckily we own our house so I can put holes any where I want.
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Old 2015-07-21, 8:38pm
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There is even a method of running the end of one of those duct works some ten feet away from the opening where your make up air domes in that would allow you to use the same window to run the duct work out of and still get make up to come in through that window.

Mainly you just have to be certain that the torch fumes are all captured and then taken far away from any air you will be living in.

The ten feet ensures there is enough space for the fumes to disperse properly.
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Old 2015-07-21, 9:54pm
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I have three windows and a screened door in the room where I work. I'm thinking of putting the vent fan in one of the windows..... it's close to where I work. It's also the only window I can leave open in the winter without sheets of ice falling from the roof onto the window (it's one of those crank kind)
Trying to make sense of your thought Speedslug...... I'm envisioning two fans..... one below that sucks air out and one above that blows air in? With the one below having duct work to take the exhaust air far from the window.... or am I reading that wrong.
I have been reading in the safety section for some ideas and even found a few videos on youtube that show people's setups. I have a pretty good idea what I'm going to do.
I am very motivated..... I have a box from Franzt showing up on Friday. Thanks so much for all your helpful suggestions =)
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