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  #1  
Old 2015-06-21, 5:04am
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Default EMS Users - A Question

Question: Are you having any issues at all with your mandrels fitting the sleeves snug, like they are suppose to be ?

I bought my EMS from the first group of 10 that Scott put up on Ebay all those years ago and just recently have been having an issue with mandrels sliding right thru the sleeve. I use 3/32". I have done all the fixes we are suppose to do to snug up the sleeve to the mandrel to no avail. I have NEVER had this issue before. Never.

I've bought my own steel rods to cut and use, I've bought mandrels from 3 different vendors and Scott himself sent some mandrels and they all slide right thru the sleeve. Can't use the EMS with mandrels that slide thru the sleeve. I have a total of about 15 mandrels that actually fit. Don't know why they fit but they fit.
Please don't ask me if I've talked to Scott. I have been trying to communicate with him about this since April. He has responded but for some reason is just not "getting it". That's all I'm going to say about that here.
I just need to know if any of you are having this issue of mandrels literally sliding out of the sleeve or maybe I should say sliding around or just don't fit snug like they are suppose to in order to use the EMS.
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  #2  
Old 2015-06-21, 8:18am
Angie09 Angie09 is offline
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Debbie...I've used the EMS for years now (I own 4) and the mandrel issue has been an ongoing problem (along with the mechanics getting shorts in them ... but that's a bitch for another day). You're probably already doing it, put rough up the mandrels ... take sand paper and rough up the whole mandrel, then when you go to use one use a diamond file and scratch up the area the spinner mandrel will hit. Helps to secure it. Then if that doesn't work, put the 3/32" sleeve into the next bigger size and then use pliers to squeeze the 2 sleeves together down to a size that will hold your mandrel. You really have to distort the sleeves but it will hold in the mandrel. I've found some 3/32" are a mm or so smaller so they are a pain to get to stay. I use the fast speed a lot so the sleeve has to really hold the mandrel. Needless to say, I've been through A LOT of sleeves and am going to figure out how to make my own. Scott has told me I should be able to find the tubing for the sleeves at HobbyLobby (not sure that's the name but you all know what store I mean). It's frustrating to say the least .... I hate the shorts in the wires more but my hands are just too old to go back to manual spinning the rods. Hope this helps! Feel free to pm me with questions ... I've been through them all!!
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Old 2015-06-21, 8:54am
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I was in ACE Hardware the other day and stumbled across a display of tiny brass tubing. I have decided to take some of my mandrel with me next time so that I can "build" some inserts that will work.

Do your brass inserts have 4 little slits on the end? I compress those ever-so-slightly with needle-nose pliers and that is enough to to improve the grip.
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Old 2015-06-21, 10:57am
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Thanks to both of you for the input but I've tried it ALL - EXCEPT for getting my own tubing and going from there. That may be the next step. Over the years, I've bought I don't know how many sets of the sleeves and honestly this has NEVER been an issue until recently. I have asked Scott if it is possible the manufacturer has changed the inside diameter of the sleeves and he says not at all. I'm going to attempt to call Scott again this week and hopefully discuss this much further.

Oh and you should of seen some of the ends of my sleeves ! lol ! You'd never think anything could possibly fit into it and be snug ! lol ! I'd take a picture but have thrown away most of them.
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  #5  
Old 2015-06-21, 1:03pm
Angie09 Angie09 is offline
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Just went to the ACE here and no sleeves.
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Old 2015-06-22, 3:35am
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You could try giving the mandrels a smoosh at the sleeve contact point.

That might deform it enough to allow the brass sleeve to get a grip on it.
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Old 2015-06-22, 5:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
You could try giving the mandrels a smoosh at the sleeve contact point.

That might deform it enough to allow the brass sleeve to get a grip on it.
Been there done that. I've done it all, plus as stated in the original post. Scott not responding emails in a timely manner is also making things a bit "touchy" now. Anyway, I hope I can locate some brass tubing in the id needed to make my own sleeves. Only time will tell.
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  #8  
Old 2015-06-22, 5:39pm
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Try a hobby shop for the brass tubes. Hobby shops that sell remote controlled airplane parts. I got mine there as I had the same problem as you. They have several sizes.

Katie
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  #9  
Old 2015-06-22, 6:24pm
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If there's a Hobby Town in your area, they would have it.
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Old 2015-06-22, 6:36pm
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Just search 3/32" brass tubing ... some came up in Ebay and Etsy. When you do find what you're looking for, I hope you will share it. There's not much info out there regarding what to do in this situation.
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Old 2015-06-22, 7:02pm
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I've had the same problem, and then I've smooshed the ends so many times that pieces break off.

I've been thinking that one could saw off a messed-up end of a tube and cut new slits in order to re-use a tube. For instance, my 5/64" tube...I use 5/64" mandrels a lot and my only tube has seen better days. But I did not see that size for sale last time I looked.

The tube would be shorter, but you would get some more use out of it.

Of course, I haven't tried it yet. lol
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Old 2015-06-22, 8:06pm
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The brass tube or collets are fairly easy to make if you have the tubing.
Good model shops, better hardware stores, and such should have brass tubing in assorted sizes.

If they don't have it in stock your local hardware should be able to order tubing in.
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  #13  
Old 2015-06-23, 12:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicfire View Post
I've had the same problem, and then I've smooshed the ends so many times that pieces break off.

I've been thinking that one could saw off a messed-up end of a tube and cut new slits in order to re-use a tube. For instance, my 5/64" tube...I use 5/64" mandrels a lot and my only tube has seen better days. But I did not see that size for sale last time I looked.

The tube would be shorter, but you would get some more use out of it.

Of course, I haven't tried it yet. lol
I've thought the same thing but what would you use to make the slits in the ends?
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Old 2015-06-23, 3:41am
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I just did a search for the 3/32" brass tubing and it can be found in MANY places including Amazon ! lol ! Lots of places have lots of sizes as well, such as this place http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXSU38&P=8 and that's just ONE example of what came up during the search.

Ace hardware came up in the search and there is an Ace Hardware very close so will try there first so I can actually take a mandrel or two with me and try them out. Any other major shopping areas are a one hour drive one way.

My husband is a tool collector so chances are he has something to cut the little slots in the tubing if needed. I may have something that might work in the dremel case.

Patti, cutting the bad ends off a tube is a great idea ! I still have about 10 bent up tubes. lol ! Yes, that many and I had more before I tossed some PLUS the two new ones I just received in the mail.


ETA: I just found a couple of old video's Scott put up about this issue. Here they are. The ONLY thing I haven't tried - putting the new mandrels in the kiln for 45 minutes. I think I'll try that today and see how it goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwnhOmAVWu8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV6Vlwc-rlc
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Old 2015-06-23, 11:02am
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Did you make the right noises while you made your adjustments?




Sound effects are optional I think.



I think he has turned the design over to these folks for retail sales now.

http://www.diamondtechcrafts.com/

At least that is where I bought mine. Had to do the tax number thing because they only sell wholesale. They have dropped their minimum initial order requirements to $150 and follow on orders are at $75 as of May 4 2015.


Something else that comes to mind: you might try putting a slight bend in the middle of a mandrel. A small curve could press against the inside of the brass tube hard enough to get you the grip strength you want.
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Old 2015-06-23, 11:12am
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Phill - You can't put a "bend" in the mandrels at all because that will cause the mandrel to be very wobbly in the spinner. Can't make a bead on a wobbly mandrel.

And yep, he has gone full retail now. I'm not even sure he keeps any in stock on his website anymore. I do know that I had to email him to find out when he would get more of the 1/8" and 3/32" sleeves in because it shows on the website they are out of stock. Turns out, he had some because he sent them to me. Still, it took two months to get them.
ETA: He does have the EMS in stock and other supplies he said. He sold off his tools line to a company called Studio Pro which is in the video on the link provided by Phill in the above post. But there are other places the EMS can be purchased.
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Old 2015-06-23, 11:17am
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Yes, it's my understanding that Scott no longer is involved in the mandrel spinner ... a company bought him out. He's now a pilot for an airline in WA. He was difficult to get a hold of before he changed careers so it will prove to be a lesson in perseverance. The bending of the mandrel doesn't work because it throws the whole spinning thing out of balance so you don't have a nice smooth rotation. I think finding our own sleeves and sharing what we find is the absolute best bet ... besides, from what I can see on the internet, it would be much more cost efficient as well. Putting the 3/32" sleeve inside the 1/8" has worked the best because squeezing the 3/32" sleeve a lot makes it thin and breakable. The 1/8" is thicker tubing so if you use both together, you have more strength to be able to squeeze them tighter. (If this doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll take a photo).
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Old 2015-06-23, 11:19am
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Debbie ... 2 months (and several emails) is about normal I've found for any transaction with him. It's really too bad ... he has a great product but the customer service leaves lots to be desired!!
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Old 2015-06-23, 1:04pm
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A pilot for a commercial airline ? Hmm, that's funny cause I just looked at his website again and saw he's also involved in Pest Control ! lol ! I totally understand having to take care of ones family so I don't care how many jobs a person has. Just take care of your long time customers in a timely manner.

Well, if 2 months is now the norm, as it seems to be, that's a real problem and yes Angie, I think you're right, we need to solve our issues ourselves, share what we learn and just move on.

And yes, that makes sense about the 3/32" sleeve fitting inside the 1/8" sleeve which is the way it's suppose to be used. I've always used it that way however I try hard to avoid snugging up that bigger sleeve as it can cause more issues. It's the 3/32" sleeve that is giving me all the headaches. I have mandrels in the kiln now just to see if that will help.
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Old 2015-06-23, 1:45pm
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Debbie ... here's what the end of my spinner looks like ... pretty pathetic but it holds the mandrels in. I use the fast speed a lot so the mandrel has to be tight. I haven't figured out anything better. See how thin the walls of the 3/32" sleeve is compared to the 1/8" that is surrounding it.

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Old 2015-06-23, 3:15pm
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Wow, that's a mess. I can't figure out how any mandrel can stay snug in that. lol ! It's a shame you had to take it that far though. I too use the high speed most of the time.

Was able to try some of the mandrels i put in the kiln earlier and as I suspected, it did nothing to make the fit tighter. I hope to make it to the hardware store tomorrow
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Old 2015-06-23, 3:21pm
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If you figure out anything better ... please, please, please share it. I'm just doing whatever I have to to make the mandrel stay in place. I think you probably check this ... but could your mandrels be a tiny bit smaller than 3/23"? I've actually gotten some and they just won't work. Just an after thought ....
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Old 2015-06-23, 4:22pm
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Oh sure some have been too small over the years. No question but ALL of them and from 3 or 4 different vendors plus the steel rods I bought and cut myself ? I mean, this is just a recent issue for me. Literally within the past year that the mandrels are this small. I bought my spinner in April of 2005. Just looked up the receipt and I've NEVER had this sort of issue before with mandrels sliding right thru the brass sleeves. Never. And I've always used the 3/32" mandrels. Yes, I've had to tighten up the tip of the sleeve and have mutilated sleeves but as I said, the mandrels NEVER slid thru like they do now. This is why I questioned Scott on the manufacture of the sleeves and if any changes have been made. He says no but I sure have to wonder and especially now since he has nothing to do with any of it anymore.
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Old 2015-06-23, 4:57pm
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He certainly doesn't manufacture the sleeves so not sure how he can be so positive they are the right size. Do you have a 5/64" sleeve? Maybe that little bit of difference would help. If you don't have one, pm me your address and I'll send you one. At this point, it's whatever works I would think.
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Old 2015-06-23, 9:24pm
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I know you probably have done this but I have to ask. Have you turned the brass around and used the other end?


And the bend I was thinking of earlier would be a very slight bend that would be deep inside the brass sleeve with an equally slight corrective bend just before it comes out of the sleeve. You wind up with the mandrel centered once it comes out of the sleeve.
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Old 2015-06-24, 2:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie09 View Post
He certainly doesn't manufacture the sleeves so not sure how he can be so positive they are the right size. Do you have a 5/64" sleeve? Maybe that little bit of difference would help. If you don't have one, pm me your address and I'll send you one. At this point, it's whatever works I would think.
I have no idea how he can be so sure and I asked him that. No answer and still have not heard back since last email sent last week.
I have a tiny sleeve he sent me to add to another sleeve but unless I'm doing something wrong, it doesn't help a thing. Not for the 3/32" mandrels anyway. I think it's for 1/16" sleeves and mandrels. I do not use 1/16" mandrels. I did tell him that in the very first email. lol ! Anyway, I'll measure it later and find out.
I appreciate the offer but hold on. I'm gonna figure this out come hell or high water. This is just ridiculous.
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Old 2015-06-24, 3:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
I know you probably have done this but I have to ask. Have you turned the brass around and used the other end?


And the bend I was thinking of earlier would be a very slight bend that would be deep inside the brass sleeve with an equally slight corrective bend just before it comes out of the sleeve. You wind up with the mandrel centered once it comes out of the sleeve.
Yes I've turned the sleeves around and used the other ends. lol ! Just about anything you can come up with, I've tried. The ONLY thing I can think of now that I haven't tried is buying a new tube myself and that's the next step.

Doesn't matter how slight the bend is in the sleeve, it will still make the spin uneven. The mandrel will be "centered" once it comes out of the sleeve anyway because it's straight to begin with. If the sleeve is off in any way, the spin will be off, not straight.
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Old 2015-06-24, 3:33am
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The 5/64" sleeve is only about 3" long and it's inserted into the 3/32". I used to use all 5/64 but the mandrels were hard to find and expensive so I went back to 3/32". Happy to send you one ... but I agree, it would be better to get this mystery solved. If you haven't tried calling Scott I would ... he very often picks up. Better than waiting for his emails.
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Old 2015-06-24, 10:52am
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Try hammering the end of the mandrel on a steel block ~ not to bend the mandrel, but to make it more oval at the tip rather than round. Depending on your sleeve, the oval shape should not slip and spin so badly in the holder.
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Old 2015-06-25, 3:44am
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Thanks for the offer Angie but I have to ask, have you inserted the 5/64" sleeve inside your 3/32" sleeve to use with the 3/32" mandrels ? And does it help ?
The tiny insert he sent me IS for the 1/16" sleeve and mandrels. The 1/16" mandrels slide right thru it too ! lol ! Not sure what he was thinking because it's certainly too small for the 3/32" mandrels. lol !

I did go to my local Ace Hardware store yesterday. No tubing which was no surprise really. More searching online and everyplace I went to wanted a small fortune for shipping or the inside diameter was too big. ETA: I just ordered a package of 3 from Ace Hdw. website. It will be delivered free to my local store. Will get an email when it's ready for pick-up.

Jo, have you hammered the ends of your mandrels ? If so, did it help ?
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