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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-12-30, 12:01pm
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Default Wanting to do a tut, but not sure if I should

I have been wanting to do a tut on my god and goddess beads, but after reading some of the comments in here I have to admid that I am afraid to. How I learned to do these beads I am not sure. I just wanted to make life-like god and goddess beads for a bike-ralley I was doing. Did I see a tut on these??? I know there are some out there and I have looked at them but they look nothing like mine.... so does that mean that I came up with them myself or did I steal some one's design or idea??? How do I find out??? If I make mine to look totally different, but use some of the same steps to create these does that mean I'm stealing from them?

As far as goddess beads go if you do a search on them you will find hundreds in different styles, ect..... they have been around for years......

any help would be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 2008-12-30, 12:05pm
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I'd be careful of where I posted the tut. Good luck!
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  #3  
Old 2008-12-30, 2:33pm
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Goddess and God beads are a subject. So, as long as you are not copying information you saw elsewhere you should be fine.
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  #4  
Old 2008-12-30, 2:34pm
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Go for it!!
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  #5  
Old 2008-12-30, 11:05pm
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Yes... go for it.
Don't let anyone scare you away.
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  #6  
Old 2008-12-30, 11:13pm
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I am in no way answering your question about whether you should or shouldn't do a tutorial, that's for you to decide.

I will answer your question about if there are already goddess tutorials out there. Lavender Creek (Teresa Labiertee - spelling?) has one as does Sara Schalken has one as well.
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  #7  
Old 2008-12-31, 6:28am
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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I am with Nicole here and I am not answering your question whether to go for it or not.....maybe I am not brave enough after the debacle in the other thread.

Having said that.....I haven't seen a goddess tutorial that looks like your goddess. I have got Kate Fowle Meleney's book (The Enamel and Electroform Decorated Beads) and Lavender Creek's tutorial and their goddesses (in their tutorials) are almost identical.
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  #8  
Old 2008-12-31, 6:33am
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I'd say go for it. You have your own style and they have been around for ages. I do both as well and there's not many doing boys. I really don't feel one has ownership of any of these. We just do em differently.
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  #9  
Old 2008-12-31, 7:34am
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I agree its a subject, your execution will be different, and I love your peeps!
for sure make one!
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  #10  
Old 2008-12-31, 7:38am
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What I would do, is purchase the existing tuts on goddesses for research purposes. That's the only way for you to know for sure if your technique is substantially different. If it is, I don't think there would be a problem.
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  #11  
Old 2008-12-31, 8:13am
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good Idea sarah
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  #12  
Old 2008-12-31, 10:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah_hornik View Post
What I would do, is purchase the existing tuts on goddesses for research purposes. That's the only way for you to know for sure if your technique is substantially different. If it is, I don't think there would be a problem.
Sort of a catch-22, though. In the current climate here on LE, it would scare me terribly to take this approach (purchasing others tutorials for research purposes). I'd be afraid someone might second guess or question my integrity (about using already published materials) if I were to purchase one or more goddess tutorials right before writing and offering one for sale myself.

I don't think it matters whether it's slightly or completely different; in recent threads, people's integrity and ethics have been called into question for all sorts of "perceived" infringements and copyright violations. Those policing other's actions and intentions seem (to me, at least) to have a "shoot first and ask questions later" sort of mentality, only I haven't seen too much of the "ask questions later".

From my perspective, once someone decides you've done something morally bankrupt, and a second person agrees with that statement publicly, from then on, posters seem to feel okay stating their opinion as accepted fact, i.e., "We all agree that what she did was WRONG". In fact, here on LE, there are far too many people reading threads and NOT posting, and just because the active posters taking a particular position in a thread are in agreement, that does not make it so for the rest of the community.

I have strongly disagreed with a number of the opinions stated as "FACT" recently, but like many others (based on conversations I've had with many others, not just my supposition) I don't wish to put myself in the cross-hairs. I suppose that's what I'm doing now, and I apologize to Pyro Beads if this seems to derail her thread. However, I think it's pertinent to the discussion, and I suspect that this fear is exactly why she is raising the question right now.

It's very clear to me, that even if you get a lot of positive reinforcement in this thread for going ahead with the project (which I also feel you should, from my personal standpoint, in a perfect world) you need to factor in that at some later point in time, once you offer something for sale, your intentions and integrity as an artist and as a person could be subject to very public scrutiny and judgment on this forum. How I wish that weren't the case, but sadly, at the moment, it seems to be.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Your gods and goddess beads are really lovely representations of an ancient form.

Schermo
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  #13  
Old 2008-12-31, 10:23am
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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Once again Schermo you have hit the nail on the head and managed to express yourself without insulting anybody. I envy your eloquence.
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Old 2008-12-31, 10:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermo View Post
It's very clear to me, that even if you get a lot of positive reinforcement in this thread for going ahead with the project (which I also feel you should, from my personal standpoint, in a perfect world) you need to factor in that at some later point in time, once you offer something for sale, your intentions and integrity as an artist and as a person could be subject to very public scrutiny and judgment on this forum. How I wish that weren't the case, but sadly, at the moment, it seems to be.
I agree with this paragraph. What happens if yours is just slightly similar to someone else's? It stinks, but do you really want to risk being torn apart in a 10-page thread over a tutorial?
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  #15  
Old 2008-12-31, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
Once again Schermo you have hit the nail on the head and managed to express yourself without insulting anybody.
Really?
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  #16  
Old 2008-12-31, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermo View Post
Sort of a catch-22, though. In the current climate here on LE, it would scare me terribly to take this approach (purchasing others tutorials for research purposes)....It's very clear to me, that even if you get a lot of positive reinforcement in this thread for going ahead with the project (which I also feel you should, from my personal standpoint, in a perfect world) you need to factor in that at some later point in time, once you offer something for sale, your intentions and integrity as an artist and as a person could be subject to very public scrutiny and judgment on this forum. How I wish that weren't the case, but sadly, at the moment, it seems to be. Good luck with whatever you decide. Your gods and goddess beads are really lovely representations of an ancient form. Schermo
Schermo~~~

You are a goddess of linguistics and diplomacy, and I sincerely admire you!!! You've put words to my sentiments perfectly!

Pyro~~~

I really don't have an answer for you, as it seems this will ultimately be a personal choice after weighing all the pros and cons, but I must applaud your foresight in posting this inquiry, publicly, and soliciting feeback from your fellow lampworkers to help you make a decision. Best to put a toe in the water first than try to swim to shore in a vortex after blindly diving in! Good thinking...

Best of luck to you.

DeAnne in CA
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  #17  
Old 2008-12-31, 10:49am
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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Oh dear I seem to have said the wrong thing, sorry Amy.
I just happen to agree with Schermo's post and if you don't that is your prerogative. I also think her advise is relevant to Pyro Beads question.
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  #18  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermo View Post
Sort of a catch-22, though. In the current climate here on LE, it would scare me terribly to take this approach (purchasing others tutorials for research purposes). I'd be afraid someone might second guess or question my integrity (about using already published materials) if I were to purchase one or more goddess tutorials right before writing and offering one for sale myself.

I don't think it matters whether it's slightly or completely different; in recent threads, people's integrity and ethics have been called into question for all sorts of "perceived" infringements and copyright violations. Those policing other's actions and intentions seem (to me, at least) to have a "shoot first and ask questions later" sort of mentality, only I haven't seen too much of the "ask questions later".

From my perspective, once someone decides you've done something morally bankrupt, and a second person agrees with that statement publicly, from then on, posters seem to feel okay stating their opinion as accepted fact, i.e., "We all agree that what she did was WRONG". In fact, here on LE, there are far too many people reading threads and NOT posting, and just because the active posters taking a particular position in a thread are in agreement, that does not make it so for the rest of the community.

I have strongly disagreed with a number of the opinions stated as "FACT" recently, but like many others (based on conversations I've had with many others, not just my supposition) I don't wish to put myself in the cross-hairs. I suppose that's what I'm doing now, and I apologize to Pyro Beads if this seems to derail her thread. However, I think it's pertinent to the discussion, and I suspect that this fear is exactly why she is raising the question right now.

It's very clear to me, that even if you get a lot of positive reinforcement in this thread for going ahead with the project (which I also feel you should, from my personal standpoint, in a perfect world) you need to factor in that at some later point in time, once you offer something for sale, your intentions and integrity as an artist and as a person could be subject to very public scrutiny and judgment on this forum. How I wish that weren't the case, but sadly, at the moment, it seems to be.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Your gods and goddess beads are really lovely representations of an ancient form.

Schermo
Perfectly said..
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  #19  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:06am
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I don't know, I really don't have anything against the idea of purchasing other tutorials to see if your approach is different enough to warrant a new tutorial.

Even if your subject is the same as someone elses, if your method of getting to the final design is different, then it is a valid thing to share with others.

If you make yours just like the other tutorial maker makes theirs...then what is the point of another tutorial demonstrating the same thing? How will you know if you bring something new to the party unless you know what the other tutorials say?

There is more than one way to skin a cat and if your way is different, people will appreciate that knowledge. If i isn't different, then they won't. But how will you know if your way is different without seeing the other way first?

I honestly believe there are people who have bought my tutorial just to see how it is put together and I take that as a compliment and hope what I have done helps them decide what they want to do with theirs. Even if my tutorial is an example of what they DON'T want theirs to look like, at least it helped. LOL

Only you know where your heart is on this. You know what is the right thing to do and because you believe it is right, will be able to defend it.

I think the problem comes up when somebody does something they know deep down wasn't the best thing, but they do it anyway because they needed the money, or they wanted some recognition or maybe they just didn't care about who they hurt. Then they get all worked up trying to defend something that even they knew wasn't right. Try to turn it around on everyone else, play victim, etc.

If you know what you are doing is good, then I say do it and damn the rest. If people try to attack you for doing something they see is wrong, when your conscience is clean...tell them to stuff it. Don't let people bully you or scare you into not realizing your goals, but you have to make the choices yourself. Just be educated about it, that's all.

~~Mary
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  #20  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:08am
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Originally Posted by AKDesigns View Post
Really?
yes, really.

There's more than one way to make a goddess (or any other kind of bead) and i think we all benefit by having multiple tuts from multiple beadmakers out there to choose from. and yes, whether from a book or online.

And personally, i'd like to maintain the option of choosing for myself which tuts to buy rather than having the range available to me dictated by standards other than those of the tut writers themselves.
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  #21  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro Beads View Post
I have been wanting to do a tut on my god and goddess beads, but after reading some of the comments in here I have to admid that I am afraid to. How I learned to do these beads I am not sure. I just wanted to make life-like god and goddess beads for a bike-ralley I was doing. Did I see a tut on these??? I know there are some out there and I have looked at them but they look nothing like mine.... so does that mean that I came up with them myself or did I steal some one's design or idea??? How do I find out??? If I make mine to look totally different, but use some of the same steps to create these does that mean I'm stealing from them?

As far as goddess beads go if you do a search on them you will find hundreds in different styles, ect..... they have been around for years......

any help would be greatly appreciated.
Pyro,

I'm sorry you should even have to ask these questions. There is a whole world out there that doesn't evolve around these forums and the opinions stated within. Somehow we have taken the world of lampworking and managed to limit everything about it and what is right and wrong to a few forums on the subject. It's a sad day when any artist has to log into a forum to get permission to create their art or write about it.
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  #22  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:09am
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I've seen 10 different teachers make Goddesses 10 different ways. IMHO the goddess figure is pretty generic by now. I'd go for it!
Paula
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  #23  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:14am
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I asked the question "has this concept gone too far"? The answers were yes and no. There were some very good comments from those who did purchase tutorials.

If I were going to write a tutorial, this is what I would consider before jumping in:

*do I have something new to offer that isn't already in print or on the forums?

*can I communicate effectively?

*can I take decent photos?

*am I willing to make a short preview of what the actual tutorial looks like?

* can I put all the information into a format that is easy to read and print?

*am I ready to handle complaints along with the compliments?

*am I willing to respond to emails asking questions?

These were issues that were brought up to me both in private and in the thread.

I am not saying yes or no. All I am saying is that some of the best in this business have received mixed reviews on this topic. People were more than happy to say what they didn't like about the tutorials that they purchased. Some shared the names (so I could take a peek myself) and some didn't.

good luck on your decision.

Sara
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  #24  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewdb View Post
yes, really.

There's more than one way to make a goddess (or any other kind of bead) and i think we all benefit by having multiple tuts from multiple beadmakers out there to choose from. and yes, whether from a book or online.

And personally, i'd like to maintain the option of choosing for myself which tuts to buy rather than having the range available to me dictated by standards other than those of the tut writers themselves.
My "really" comment had nothing to do with the OP question. You misunderstood.
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Old 2008-12-31, 11:33am
sarah_hornik sarah_hornik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermo View Post
Sort of a catch-22, though. In the current climate here on LE, it would scare me terribly to take this approach (purchasing others tutorials for research purposes). I'd be afraid someone might second guess or question my integrity (about using already published materials) if I were to purchase one or more goddess tutorials right before writing and offering one for sale myself.
I can see how it would seem like a catch-22, but I also think that in cases like these it would be better for one to do the research than to take a gamble - there is too much at stake, as we have all seen recently.

In my mind, anyone who purchases a tutorial has the right to do whatever they want with its contents - whether it's learning to make a specific bead, checking how someone else does something or just plain research. But yes, I guess there would be a risk that some might not see it that way.
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  #26  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:42am
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns View Post
My "really" comment had nothing to do with the OP question. You misunderstood.
Maybe I also misunderstood, what did your "really?" mean??
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  #27  
Old 2008-12-31, 11:55am
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Carmen, I believe Amy's "really" comment was directed at your saying that Schermo managed to express herself "without insulting anybody." I have to agree with Amy, then again, this is of-course just my perspective. . .
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Old 2008-12-31, 11:57am
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AKDesigns AKDesigns is offline
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Thank you Hayley, you nailed it and I'm just so tired of all this I couldn't even come up with a response...so thank you.
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  #29  
Old 2008-12-31, 12:04pm
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Elleth Elleth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermo View Post
Sort of a catch-22, though. In the current climate here on LE, it would scare me terribly to take this approach (purchasing others tutorials for research purposes). I'd be afraid someone might second guess or question my integrity (about using already published materials) if I were to purchase one or more goddess tutorials right before writing and offering one for sale myself.

I don't think it matters whether it's slightly or completely different; in recent threads, people's integrity and ethics have been called into question for all sorts of "perceived" infringements and copyright violations. Those policing other's actions and intentions seem (to me, at least) to have a "shoot first and ask questions later" sort of mentality, only I haven't seen too much of the "ask questions later".

From my perspective, once someone decides you've done something morally bankrupt, and a second person agrees with that statement publicly, from then on, posters seem to feel okay stating their opinion as accepted fact, i.e., "We all agree that what she did was WRONG". In fact, here on LE, there are far too many people reading threads and NOT posting, and just because the active posters taking a particular position in a thread are in agreement, that does not make it so for the rest of the community.

I have strongly disagreed with a number of the opinions stated as "FACT" recently, but like many others (based on conversations I've had with many others, not just my supposition) I don't wish to put myself in the cross-hairs. I suppose that's what I'm doing now, and I apologize to Pyro Beads if this seems to derail her thread. However, I think it's pertinent to the discussion, and I suspect that this fear is exactly why she is raising the question right now.

It's very clear to me, that even if you get a lot of positive reinforcement in this thread for going ahead with the project (which I also feel you should, from my personal standpoint, in a perfect world) you need to factor in that at some later point in time, once you offer something for sale, your intentions and integrity as an artist and as a person could be subject to very public scrutiny and judgment on this forum. How I wish that weren't the case, but sadly, at the moment, it seems to be.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Your gods and goddess beads are really lovely representations of an ancient form.

Schermo
I couldn't agree more...
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  #30  
Old 2008-12-31, 12:07pm
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Hayley, I was not sure what Amy was referring to after her 2nd post and wanted clarification.
I still don't see where Schermo.... names, shames or insults anyone, she just states the truth as she sees it and I happened to agree with her but once again this is just my take on her post.
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