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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #31  
Old 2006-02-12, 1:55pm
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Are you able to electroform more than one piece at a time as long as nothing is touching? Does it affect the performance of the system?
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  #32  
Old 2006-02-12, 9:32pm
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Tink - Its funny - I've been thinking of gearing up to do electroforming - just thinking about it and reading up - and here you are selling a kit for it! Great minds think alike except you are a mile ahead of me.

How much bench space is required?

I also really love the cloisonne beads I've seen, and I was wondering, if you could substitute the metal inlay step with electroforming?

Thanks, Jim
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  #33  
Old 2006-02-12, 10:06pm
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Jim, I'm hoping others here will chime in to give their two cents worth, too. Part of what I love about the setup is that it's a very small footprint: The rectifier is 3.5" wide by 7.5" front to back by 6" high. The 1000 ml beaker is about 4" across. And that's it.

I don't know much about the cloisonne process, so I'll have to pass on answering that one. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
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  #34  
Old 2006-02-13, 7:15am
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RE: Tink's 'Fuming Cabinet' -- if you use a heat-safe glass jar or a metal can, you can put it on the top of your kiln. The warmth of the kiln will affect the patina process (speed it up) and also affect the color. (Beware the ability of the patina solution to eat its way through some wussy metal can bottoms. Ouch!! Big mess! I now nest the can in a small Pyrex glass cake pan, and then put that on the top of the kiln.)

I prefer the deep and rich nubbly greens and turquoise patinas, exactly like the colors Tink got on that wonderful hanging matte-black vessel. I am also delighted and impressed with the thinness of that copper shell. Wonderfully delicate! Bravo, kiddo!

Kim, obviously I agree about Kate's electroforming work. The underlying beads are as (and sometimes even more so) amazing as the surface electro work. (And, hey, we miss you over here in Maryland. When ya comin' back?)

JanMD (akaJan Olsen)
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  #35  
Old 2006-02-13, 6:20pm
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<<<I also really love the cloisonne beads I've seen, and I was wondering, if you could substitute the metal inlay step with electroforming?>>>

Yes! Artists electroform the ridges onto the copper sheets, instead of etching or making an inlay sheet. Melissa Huff is an artist that uses electroforming to create the areas for the enamels: http://www.state.il.us/agency/iac/IA...uff/Photos.htm

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  #36  
Old 2006-02-14, 11:27am
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Thanks Jan from Maryland! - Jim
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  #37  
Old 2006-02-15, 3:38pm
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bump
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  #38  
Old 2006-02-15, 4:40pm
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I just found a way to get a very blue green patina...this is the brightest one I have managed to get...I found a recipe online and then I combined Jan's and Tink's fuming ideas. I mixed salt and red wine vinegar in a baby food jar and then I first put the piece inside...then I took it out and put it in a ziploc bag that had an ammonia soaked paper towel inside. THEN I put a little foil pan on top of my kiln and put the ziploc inside it. I let it sit in the "tent" until it started to change and then took it out. It just keeps getting greener and greener. It makes me think of that Stephen King bit from Creepshow...LOL.
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  #39  
Old 2006-02-16, 8:00pm
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Bump - I get nervous when this gets too low on the page - and I'm still waiting for my plating solution!
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  #40  
Old 2006-02-17, 7:54am
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Anna - - Please tell us more about that patina recipe that you found! You said salt and red wine vinegar, but not the proportions. Also, I think you say that you immersed the piece in that mixture for a while (before you put it in the ammonia bag), but you didn't tell us how long. More detail, my dear!!!

And Anna - - - if possible - - - please post a pic of how it turned out!

Thank you.

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  #41  
Old 2006-02-17, 9:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMD
Anna - - Please tell us more about that patina recipe that you found! You said salt and red wine vinegar, but not the proportions. Also, I think you say that you immersed the piece in that mixture for a while (before you put it in the ammonia bag), but you didn't tell us how long. More detail, my dear!!!

And Anna - - - if possible - - - please post a pic of how it turned out!

Thank you.

JanMD
I can post a picture...lol....but I have to say the piece isn't particularly lovely...I forgot about it in the soup and the electroforming is pretty heavy for my tastes.


LOL, sorry! The patina recipe wasn't specific...it just mentioned salt and red wine vinegar so I started experimenting. I used about 1 tsp of salt (I used sea salt but I doubt that matters), to about 3 tablespoons or so of red wine vinegar. I then put my piece for about 2-5 minutes..not long at all. When I took it out, I just removed the moisture lightly with a paper towel. OK...let me get a picture, but please don't laugh...it is pretty heavily electroformed.



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Last edited by hummingbird3172; 2006-02-17 at 9:20am. Reason: adding pictures of green monstrosity
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  #42  
Old 2006-02-17, 9:40am
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Anna, that is so cool looking! I love it!

Lil
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  #43  
Old 2006-02-17, 10:04am
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Thanks Lil!

Kimberly, that does make sense! I think however, that I will just try to pay attention next time and not let the coating get too thick . I need to get more anodes...the ones I had have totally fallen apart so I am getting some copper sheeting this weekend to make some more. This has been a good learning experience...lol...I am learning what NOT to do!
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  #44  
Old 2006-02-17, 10:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberly
LOL!! I know EXACTLY what you mean! I have done it, too, and just decided to let it be a learning experience!! I use copper roof flashing. Comes in big rolls. You can buy it by the square foot and cut it with tin snips. Be sure to get the kind with no backing. Works great!
Thank you! I guess I will be going through it a lot..I'll need a big roll! LOL Especially if I forget and leave my piece in the solution too long! LOL
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  #45  
Old 2006-02-17, 10:51am
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Well, I still think it's very cool looking! I mean, I know you don't want a bead to be overwhelmed...but the copper piece on it's own if very cool looking! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Lil
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  #46  
Old 2006-02-17, 12:20pm
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Thanks you guys...see I was going for a really delicate leaf...that was my "vision" for the piece and so when it came out anything but delicate I was kind of disappointed. I always get very frustrated when the actual finished piece doesn't match my "vision" and sometimes I have to come back to it later and view it on it's own merits...lol. Sometimes I am my own worst enemy! LOL
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  #47  
Old 2006-02-18, 7:14am
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Anna - - - Thanks for posting! I like BOTH the electro and the patina! Well done on both, in my opinion. The patina is nice and subtle and realistic looking. Sometimes when I use the patina solution from Rio, I get a really bright phony-looking color. I like yours much better.

And the nubblier the better, in my opinion, on the electro work. I know that your leaf vision has almost vanished, but what the heck? It looks almost like an African mask or something very mysterious. I like it!

Question 1 for Tink: How many beads can you electroform before the solution is in need of rejuvenation?
Question 2 for Tink: How do you rejuvenate your solution?

JanMD
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  #48  
Old 2006-02-18, 12:37pm
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I thought I would post these links about electroforming here - I have them bookmarked but this is handier:

Patina Formulas (already posted earlier in this thread):

http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/patinaformulas.htm#l


Samson Technology - all kinds of supplies:

http://v-shoppes.com/mivastore/merch...re_Code=samson

Safer Solutions - electroconductive paint - loads of tips and links:

http://www.safer-solutions.com/page%205.html

Dalmar Plating - supplies and information

http://www.dalmarplating.com/

I think I have some others - if I add to this post - I'll edit out the original one and repost at the end of the thread. (I'm still waiting for my plating solution and I now have more ideas than I can create for the rest of my life )
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  #49  
Old 2006-02-18, 12:40pm
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Jan - you might want to take a look at the Safer Solutions web site. They have some pretty comprehensive answers to your questions.
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  #50  
Old 2006-02-18, 9:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMD
Question 1 for Tink: How many beads can you electroform before the solution is in need of rejuvenation?
Question 2 for Tink: How do you rejuvenate your solution?

JanMD
Jan, I can't speak for the number of vessels, it really depends on the area being electroformed and the thickness of the coating.

As for refreshing the solution, brightener can be used but we haven't tried any to recommend yet. I believe Tink just uses new solution when the time comes.
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  #51  
Old 2006-02-18, 10:00pm
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Actually, I just add distilled water to keep my solution at the 1000ml mark on the beaker. I have brightener, I've just never found the need to use it.

I'm still using the same quart of solution I started with a couple of years ago.
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  #52  
Old 2006-02-18, 10:01pm
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NOTE: Don't leave your anodes in your solution when you're not using it. The copper will continue to dissolve.
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  #53  
Old 2006-02-19, 7:27am
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Thank you all for the answers and the links. (I like the Safer site the best.)

It seems that the suppliers are selling both plastic containers and the glass beakers as electroforming tanks. I don't suppose it matters which kind of tank you use, plastic or glass, just so you keep the solution clean.

I was also intrigued by the solution temperature tip on the Safer page, about how it ought to be chilled. I just did a piece yesterday, with brand new solution, that turned out all dull and salmonly, exactly as that Safer page (http://www.safer-solutions.com/page%204.html) says happens when the solution isn't sufficiently chilled. Hmmmmmm!

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  #54  
Old 2006-02-20, 1:16am
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That's interesting about the temperature thing. I had always heard that, if anything, the solution should be warmed! LOL! Is the chilling thing just related to the Safer Solutions products?

I get the salmon color when my amps are too low. By turning the amps up just a wee bit, I get the nice "new penny" look.
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  #55  
Old 2006-02-20, 7:54pm
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I just received my copper solution today

In the information that came with it I noticed that Dalmar has a secondary site at:

http://www.dalmar.net

There is some great info there under the Conductive Coatings link on preparing your objects for electroforming.
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  #56  
Old 2006-02-21, 4:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanMD
Anna - - - Thanks for posting! I like BOTH the electro and the patina! Well done on both, in my opinion. The patina is nice and subtle and realistic looking. Sometimes when I use the patina solution from Rio, I get a really bright phony-looking color. I like yours much better.

And the nubblier the better, in my opinion, on the electro work. I know that your leaf vision has almost vanished, but what the heck? It looks almost like an African mask or something very mysterious. I like it!

Question 1 for Tink: How many beads can you electroform before the solution is in need of rejuvenation?
Question 2 for Tink: How do you rejuvenate your solution?

JanMD

Thanks Jan! It just seems to get greener everyday! LOL

I have another Patina recipe....I really love the look of this....I used a hard boiled egg...I put my bead on a dish with the egg (without touching) and then cover the whole thing with plastic wrap....if you leave it at room temp..or better yet use a warm egg the reaction happens faster...here is a picture:



I sealed it with the Sophisticated Finishes sealer (from Michael's) .

Mary Beth, thank you sooooo much for all of the links! I know they will come in handy!


Tink, have you ever heard of anyone getting an allergic reation to the solution? I have a weird rash that is driving me nuts...not sure exactly where it came from....I am such a mess!
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  #57  
Old 2006-02-21, 11:42pm
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Anna, I'm sure that an allergic reaction is possible with pretty much everything. I had an "encounter" with a patina solution tonight that was NOT a good thing.

Are you wearing your gloves? Where is the rash? Try washing the area very thoroughly, then rinsing with some baking soda infused water.

So how is everyone doing??? I wanted to check in with y'all one more time before John and I head off to Glass Axis for our Big To-Do this weekend.

Just a little something else I wanted to mention. An LE member is selling some Titanium pens that she made. You can find the thread here.

What you may not know is that you can supposedly use Titanium pens to lay down a conductive line... Hmmmm... Give you any ideas? Yep. You can draw on your work with it and then electroform it, using the Titanium deposit to collect the copper instead of paint.

I haven't tried this yet, as I keep forgetting to. Maybe someone can give it a go and let us know what happens!
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  #58  
Old 2006-02-22, 9:37am
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It could be anything...I doubt it has to do with the solution. To be honest, I haven't ALWAYS used the gloves, but I am not sticking my whole hand in or anything....maybe it was something I ate....or worse...*shudder* LOL

I ordered a titanium pen...until your post I didn't even know there was such a thing! lol


I can see all kinds of potential for using these titanium pens to draw designs for electroforming!

I am so excited about these pens!
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  #59  
Old 2006-02-23, 6:41am
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<<<So how is everyone doing??? >>> Well! I have what I secretly suspect is a bad batch of solution from Rio! If true, this is a MAJOR BUMMER. Anna, did you get yours recently from Rio? If so, I am wondering if your rash is somehow related. The jury is still very much out on whether or not this is indeed a bad batch, since I won't be able to do definitive testing (vs. an old batch) until next weekend. But there are indications: regardless of where I set the amps/volts, I still got a dull gray, very crumbly copper coat. Another person, who also received a new bottle from Rio the week before last, also had exactly the same result, and she is a far more experienced electroformer.

I will report back as to the results of my testing week after next. In the meantime, if there is anyone out there who received a bottle of solution from Rio within the past two weeks, please let me know what your experiences are!

JanMD
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Old 2006-02-23, 6:19pm
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VivianLampwork VivianLampwork is offline
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
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I think something's wrong.....I'm getting the electroforming build up on my copper wire that's holding my work. I scrubbed my wire good, I have a good paint trail & a connection at the end of the wire on my work. I noticed this happening last night, so I took the piece off and painted the lines a little thicker & it's happening again. What the heck??
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